We’ve all heard the cries of hypocrisy: You can’t be Christian and against gun control; you can’t be pro-life and pro-gun ownership; vengeance is God’s, so why do you need a gun?, etc.
Let us examine, in particular, the charge that being prepared for self-defense is vengeance.
The conversation goes something like this:
Gun Grabber: “Guns kill people! We need more gun control laws!”
Gun Owner: “People kill people. Gun control laws do nothing to stop criminals from committing crimes and just make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves. Saying we need more gun control laws to keep people from being murdered is like saying we need to ban silverware so people won’t get fat.”
Gun Grabber (knowing he has no logical argument): “You hypocrite. You’re a Christian, and the Bible says Vengeance is God’s, so what right do you have to own a gun?”
We already know that gun laws don’t prevent gun crime. It was illegal for a student to carry a weapon on the Virginia Tech campus, and so the only student with a gun was the one shooting everyone in sight. Short of snapping magical fingers and disappearing all firearms, no law imaginable can prevent guns from being used by criminals. But we know all this already, and it’s all been completely documented.
We also know that as a matter of United States law, the right to own guns is recognized by the Constitution. All the hemming and hawing one can conjure up doesn’t change the fact that the very foundational document of our government says “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Some people try to argue that militia means government military, but it doesn’t, and the very wording of the amendment places the right of arms ownership with the people and not the state.
But now, what of the Christian? Can a Christian accept these facts and own guns without hypocrisy?
What is Vengeance?
The Bible says:
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.” -Romans 12:19
There can be no doubt that the Bible clearly directs the Christian not to take vengeance into his own hands. Vengeance is taken out by God himself, and according to 1st Peter 2:14, he does this through the institution of government. But is self-defense vengeance?
For an answer to this, we do not go to the gun-grabbing liberal who despises individual liberty and sees personal defense as an affront to the nanny-state. To see if the divine operation of vengeance is equated with self-defense, we need merely read more Scripture.
For example, if someone breaks into your home and you kill him while he is committing his crime, is that vengeance?
“If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.” -Exodus 22:2
Clearly, the answer is no: self-defense is not vengeance. But what if you wait a while, and go kill him after you found out what he did? Conveniently for us, the very next verse answers that:
“If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.” -Exodus 22:3
These two verses lay out quite clearly the difference between self-defense and vengeance. In the first case, the thief was killed while committing his crime, and there is no fault in the man who killed him. But if he waits until it is over (the sun be risen), it would be vengeance, because at that point the imminency is passed and the thief must be dealt with under the law.
So we see quite plainly that acting in self-defense is not taking vengeance.
“Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” -Luke 22:36
There is a later scene where Jesus told Peter to put his sword away.
The reason He did so was that the sword was meant as a weapon to use against bandits and highwaymen, not Temple policemen. (The Jerusalem Temple had its own police force, and it is this police force that arrested Jesus.)
Christians should remember that Christ was Jewish, so what does Jewish Torah say about self-defense?
[The Torah is the biblical books of Genesis through Deuteronomy]
[no, I’m not Jewish]
Rabbi Mermelstein addresses that topic: http://www.gunownersalliance.com/Rabbi_0363.htm
Self-defense is not practiced anywhere in the New testament. Paul recieved 40 stripes – 1 not once,
but 5 time. I self-defense were an option surely
the Apostle would have used it. But he did not even mention it. Jesus said thos that take up the sword shall perish with the sword. Instead
hebrews 4:12 says ” the SWORD of the Spirit is move powerful than ANY two-edged sword”. Using
a carnal weapon would be not as effective as the word of GOD. Psalm 68 says “LET GOD ARISE, let
his enemies be scattered.”. Moses spoke the earth
beopened and ALL the rebels at KORAH were descended into it. Paul spoke and his enemy became blind. I thought that “the just shall live by faith”. As soon as you take up the sword any faith you had uis GONE. When Paul went to jail the angel brought an earthquake to open the prison doors in acts 17. Show me even 1 disciple who used carnal self sefense. We are living under grace not the law. We should follow the law of the SPIRIT, for to be carnally minded is DEATH.
When ananias and saphira lied, the apostles spoke
and they both dropped DEAD. I hope and pray we can follow these holy examples to make this world
a more peaceful place to live
I’ve found no New Testament prohibition against self-defense, or defense of one’s family. Such a statement would have to be researched to determine whether it was a translation error, because the scriptures tell us that God is constant & un-changing. Such a prohibition would be a complete 180-degree change from the instruction of the Old Testament.
I don’t know about your other readers, but I could not stay my hand and allow an intruder to savage my wife and children. I want and need the means to resist, because I know that the state is under no burden to defend me or mine. Property is of no consequence – beyond it’s worth to provide for my family’s needs as I am bound to do.
Here’s a link to a discussion of self-defense and the New Testament: http://www.lawandliberty.org/defense.htm
God’s blessings upon you.
Letting a criminal commit violence against my family is not loving him or having mercy upon him, nor is it protecting the helpless as we are commanded to do. If we do not provide for our families, we are “worse than infidels.”
The premise behind your post is interesting, but…
Besides that all I heard was a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Do you think referring to people like that shows Christ’s work in our hearts or at least a modicum of respect?
Matt L. Since Jesus called people vipers and white washed tombs and whipped the hell out of the money changers in the temple I guess he didn’t have love in his heart and was a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal too. If you actually read the entire Gospel you’ll see that the real Jesus wasn’t always a nice guy. In fact he gave the Pharisees and the religious leaders some pretty brutal tongue lashings.
Right on Howard!
good job on this.
For the people who do not think self-defense is in the New Testament:
1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Compare that with Exodus 22:2-3 also look at what Paul says about fighting Beast in Ephesus in his debate with people at Corinth about whether Christ arose from the dead or not:
1 Corinthians 15: 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
We know from history that on occassion people were put into arenas to fight with beasts and gladiators. Paul FOUGHT with beasts. According to modern day interpretation of scripture…Paul should have laid down his arms and succumbed to death.
Also, if you take the time to read through Daniel and Revelation you will see that the Anti-Christ will make WAR with the saints. War takes two groups, I’m quite sure Daniel and John could have chosen other words if they simply meant persecution or holocaust. Well to better put it…God chose the word “WAR.”
No I’m not advocating Christians take up arms against anyone, I’m just recognizing it may come to the point where Christians have not choice but to defend their person, their family and their sisters and brothers in the Lord.
I’ve wrestled with this question myself. I don’t want to take a life…but how can I allow a life to be taken? Even the Angels warred in heaven…against the dragon (Rev 12:7) I figure they used different weapons, but they still warred and won. Are we expected to do less?
Pardon my brutality, but if a man broke into your home and raped one of your daughters, would you then hand him the other? In most cases of self defnce involving a fire arm no shot is ever fired, believe me if some one is pointing a gun at you you WILL stop doing what ever it is that you are doing.
LUK 22:35-36
BrotherRoy,
You forget that Paul explained to us that we, Christian saints, do not battle (war) against flesh and blood.
Eph. 6:10-14
10 A final word: Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on all of God’s armor so that you will be able to stand firm against all strategies of the devil. 12 For we[a] are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore, put on every piece of God’s armor so you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will still be standing firm. 14 Stand your ground, putting on the belt of truth and the body armor of God’s righteousness
———
We are told we wresthle/fight/battle not against flesh and blood… and to put on the full armor of God, which are all of them spiritual, to prepare us for war/battle, which is spiritual… not physical.
d4nnyb0y02, if we follow your logic through, what about other matters of the flesh? Eating? Working? Etc?
Understanding that we fight a spiritual battle does not mean you don’t take care of physical needs. This verse in particular comes to mind:
1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Ephesians 6 does not get you out of providing for your own. That includes defending the helpless of your house against assailants.
By standing by and not killing, stopping, the madman hurting your wife and kids, you become the murderer of your wife and kids and have committed suicide to yourself and the offender gets off scot-free.
I can see both sides of this argument. In my opinion, protecting/providing for one’s family supersedes any intruder’s right. My only question/concern is where do we draw the line before we decide to work with our elected government to limit/prohibit mass destruction firearms? Must we continue to one-up the enemy to the point of carnal destruction? I hope and pray that we come to our senses and agree on the need to defend our families/homes while at the same time working with our government that the defense of our families/home does not come the point of savagery.
Self defense is performed everyday by the pious, as they retain their position of safety under the governments protection and implied threat. Also, most of the pious make an attempt to compete to obtain a lively hood and not starve. They would do well to offer their spot to one who is starving, and not compete. Truly hyprocrisy. No wonder so many people have a bad view of Christ.
Kelly’s comment,
A christian should be in the mindset to win a war if it is worth fighting. On the small stuff we shoud “turn the other cheek”, let it go. Make issues small if possible. If it so happens that the weapons are so powerful that world anhilation occurs, that is the situation we cannot change. The alternative is to lose, which would be the incorrect answer. With that inherited situation, we can try to set rules of warfare and weapons strength if the “bad” opponent is in agreement. We should be sincere and honest but prudent that they might cheat. I do not necessarily subscribe to the view that the U.S. fits into the Christian side. The Christian side actually cross international borders. I do not have an answer about building weapons to point at another nation’s Christians. Probably that does cross the line to become sin.
“Show me even 1 disciple who used carnal self sefense.” What about a prophet? Elisha called an army of bears to kill teenagers who were simply DISRESPECTING him, a prophet of God. What do you think he would have done to someone in the active act of rape or murder? I don’t own a gun because I trust God can protect me, but if someone breaks into my house with intents to harm my family I’ll tear out his throat with all the christian love I can muster. Not because I hate him, but because his actions had easily foreseeable consequences. He gave up his right to life when he threatened another persons right ot life. You can be sure if I had an army of bears I would call them too.
Would Queen Esther Own An Assault Rifle?
Around Mother’s day of this year, the National Rifle Association at their annual banquet ceremony presented Sarah Palin, one of their life time members, with a custom made military style assault rifle. This . 50 caliber weapon has an effective range of 2,000 yards with ammo that can disable heavy vehicles and pierce any type of body armor.
The gun Palin received is not that good for hunting. A Caribou would be reduced to tiny bits of hamburger. Although not hardly designed for sportsmen, the assault rifle is a big hit among criminal elements. It often gives them a distinct advantage over the weaponry and protective vests of policemen. That’s why when the 10 year federal ban on assault weapons was set to expire in 2004, over 1,000 law officers and sheriffs signed a petition to renew a ban that had been supported not only by Democratic Presidents, Clinton and Carter, but also, Republicans George H.W. Bush, and Ronald Reagan.
Unfortunately, Congress and President Bush allowed the ban to expire.. Bush, who spent months looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, apparently ignored the fact that WMD’s can be found right here in America, namely, military style firearms readily available to the public. Could it be that our President, hailed by the evangelical community as a “pro-life” champion, was afraid to speak out against the gun industry and their lobbyists? The NRA embraces the practice of selling assault weapons in gun show parking lots-no questions asked. Few politicians seem to have a problem with that.
We deplore the gun massacres taking place along our Mexican border. However, the drug cartels have highly effective killers only because they have an arsenal of assault weapons manufactured and easily acquired within the United States.
Queen Esther stood in the gap and saved many of her own people. Armed with only her verbal skills and the favor of God, Esther refused to remain silent on behalf of innocent lives that were at stake. ( Esther 4:14)
Abortion is not the only shame of America. Over 30,000 firearm related deaths occur in this nation on an annual basis. Every nine minutes a teenager in this country dies from gun shot wounds. Does not their blood cry out to Heaven ? Who will stand in the gap to say, “ ENOUGH!” ? Will Sarah Palin? Will any Christian challenge the NRA and a gun lobby that has high jacked the Second Amendment and taken it out of its historical context? Or will evangelicals and so-called “pro-lifers” continue to remain silent?
I didn’t read all the posts, but you need to read Nehemiah 4:14. Yes, it’s old testament, and it is talking about the battle Nehemiah was facing, but it seems to be appliable to today.
We are permitted to defend and the victory will be given the faithful by God. We are not to attack, but Love our enemies, so much as it depends on us we are to be at peace with all men.
After our forefathers fought and paid for our liberties and comforts with their very lives, we find it necessary to discuss whether or not fighting for such things is justified. How does one stop a holocaust? How does one stop the slaughter of the innocent? How does one protect his family?
Just because you don’t want to have to fight does not make fighting wrong. We are to examine our hearts. God can and will lead us into battles. He has done so with His people throughout the ages.
Let’s not forget that David (“a man after God’s own heart”), was a man aquainted with battle and blood. Many of the heroes of the faith were likewise.
Allow me to add a verse to the ones already mentioned:
Pr 21:31 “The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but victory rests with the LORD.” (NIV)
Yes, we trust God for the victory at the same time we make ready for the fight. I don’t want to have to fight. It is terrifying but who are you trusting for the victory? God may keep the evil from your door or ordaine that you confront it and push it back. As scripture teaches we should be prepared.
So how does the presence of references to scripture on guns issued to the UK and US military bear on this discussion?
I blogged about it here: http://tinyurl.com/ye6acor
Would welcome your comments.
yes carlos, GOD will help you and defend you but you have to help yourself too, arm yourself
OMG. Please read the Bible and ask the Holy spirit to guide you. First of all, if I understand what a lot of people are saying all christians should have a gun since the streets are not safe and the world system is against us. Now if we should have guns to protect ourselves against thieves we should also protect ourselves against sickness, natural disaster, car accident, etc. So at the time the thieve will break into your house God will not be here or he will not know that’s why you should not wait for God to help you but you should do it by yourself. How do you know that God did not send the thief in order for you to preach him? Also, you forgot Roman 8 verse 28 “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose.” or maybe you prefer taking the word “all” and put “all except” when someone break into my house, when my life is in danger,etc?
Also, when you go to preach i supposed that you carry your gun or maybe when you go to the church? How do you preach the gospel of God if you don’t trust god to protect you? So we are not ready to suffer for God? Because if I were not a christian I would defend myself but since I am a christian I can’t do so. It is very easy to understand it. If it was not by grace we all should be dead if we were still living in the old testament. If you don’t want to believe that because you think it is not a sin to have a gun do it for your testimony. Because remember what Paul said about eating meat and anything that is not prohibited but cause someone not to come to Christ. Do you think that your testimony will be very good and you could preach the gospel after killing someone who broke up into your house. You could ask those people who were doing the so called “Holy war”. you think that God could not help the marthirs who died by the hands of Neron or else? If you think that God can not prevent you from a thief attack or from being rape, or killed, or whatever you need to relearn about the power of God, the knowledge of God and God himself because there are some basics things about God you did not understand. May God help you all my brothers in Christ.
I continue to see people post I Timothy 5:8 as a defense for lethal force. I cannot say that I can side with either case, because I am studying and seeking guidance, but the word “provide” in this verse is from a Greek word that is not associated with “protection.” It is used in the sense of material provision. I am not a “gun banner” by any means. I have my own firearms and am well familiar with how to use them. I have always grown up under the impression that I have the right to my own life. Based upon the constitution alone, I would agree, but the Bible tells us that our life is no longer our own. It also says that the wages of our sin is death. Our sins may be forgiven and covered by Christ’s blood, but we still deserve death each time we sin. We are therefore Biblically deserving of death whether it comes at the hands of God or the hands of man. In a sovereign God’s eyes, we have no right to our own lives. I’m not seeking to cause conflict, only healthy discussion, and any constructive response would be much welcomed.
Violent self-defense is a reaction based in fear, not love. Over and over again the Bible tells us, “Do not be afraid.” In Matthew 10:28 Jesus himself says not to be afraid of men because the worst thing a human can do to you is kill you.
Jesus promises many things, but he never promises a life of safety. And we learn from the Gospels the futility of this pursuit: “Whoever saves his life will lose it” (Matthew 16:24).
In response to the quote from John 15, how is shooting a thief who breaks and enters the same as laying down your life for a friend?
The passage in Exodus 22 was intended to be a guide for the judicial system, not personal morality. Jesus looks at other verses from the same section and expands them when he says, “You’ve heard it said not to murder, I tell you not to hate.”
I think that in any case, it would be a hard choice to take a gun and shoot someone, although I am with all who say it isn’t wrong. I do think however, that killing is sometimes unnecessary, and God can sometimes give another way to protect you family without killing.
Violent self-defense may be a reaction based on fear. If someone came to shoot me with a gun, shooting him would be simply me or him. If I die, I will go to heaven, but he? Why not forgive him and let him have another chance. On the other hand, shooting to defend someone else, or several others goes beyond you. I can forgive what people do to me. But if someone is threatening the lives of many, (as in the case of a school shooting, I think it would be un-Christian to stand by and watch, especially if you could stop it.
“Whoever saves his life will lose it” (Matthew 16:24) refers to self-defense, but not defense of others. Also, cold-blooded murder and defense are to separate things.
I would probably not kill someone who broke into my house to steal. If he wanted my car that much, maybe he needed it more than I did.
I am against gun-banning, and I think generally everyone should be. There are times when hunting is useful, etc. Besides, target shooting is very fun, I am good with both pistol and rifle. And it is no more dangerous than race car driving. (It is actually less dangerous.) Besides, banning guns won’t keep them from criminals, who steal them anyway.
“A gun is a tool, … no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it.”
Lots of interesting comments here. One additional point I want to make: PROVIDING for your family means ensuring you are there to do so. If you willingly give up your life for the sake of a criminal, you are not providing for your family. Someone who is willing to take my life is robbing my family of their provider, father, husband, etc. As much as I would never want to take a life, I would want to allow that even less.
I live in Canada and am Christian. We have strict hand-gun control and so most households are without guns, except for some with hunting rifles. These have to be stored without ammo and the bolt removed, etc. They have to be locked up.
When I go to bed at night, I and all my fellow canadians don’t feel fearful as many US citizens do. You seem to the World as paranoid and as Christians that appears to us like lack of faith sometimes. My In-Laws once came up here in their motorhome and left their gun at the border for safe keeping. Their friends would not do that and stayed south of here. That saddened us and made us laugh at the same time.
Your laws in many states that allows someone to shoot at a retreating or unarmed person is not self-defence and to me is just plain murder. Any Christian who would sanction that, is in question in my opinion.
Peter:
Some of us here in the US own guns for sport. Regardless of your views on self-defense, giving the government power to ban guns is a bad precedent. There is nothing wrong with owning a gun. My favourite sport (other than fencing) is shooting trap-targets with pistols. Pistols can be used for more than just self-defense.
I think it is unfortunate if we appear as fearful. I do not share this feeling, and I am glad of that. I don’t think any Christian should live in fear, but some run to the hospital for anything, even if it is the common flu. I think this is equivalently sad.
Peter said:
“Your laws in many states that allows someone to shoot at a retreating or unarmed person is not self-defence and to me is just plain murder.”
That is murder, and I would never sanction that. But I think if that were the circumstances, even our laws wouldn’t allow that. And of course, like you said, guns should always be stored away safely, just like pot-handles on hot stove tops should never be turned outward.
You know, this was posted in July 2007, it turned out to quite a hot topic.
To me this is quite easy: Christian faith is based on The 10 Commandments, one of which is THOU SHALL NOT KILL, and the raison d´etre of any weapon is to kill. That is, if you bear a weapon is because, if need be, you are prepared to kill to defend yourself or yours against a life-threatening attack. Therefore, I think that there is nothing else to say about this. Besides, the US Constitution, as well as all constitutions worldwide, is not static and unchangeable, and may be ammended, as its own various ammendmends attest to.
there’s only one passage that possibly negates the ability to defend yourself with lethal force. its the passage about whoever saves his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for Jesus will save it, it’s talking about avoiding martyrdom by denying Jesus in order to save their life. Surely you are not implying that you will go to hell for wearing a seatbelt! Of course you are within biblical law and within constitutional law to defend yourself with deadly force, if necessary.
I can truly understand people taking the position of trusting God and not agreeing with self defense. you are most certainly entitled to your opinion. But I pose this question to those who chose to be easily victimized. Do you lock your car door at the super market? How about your house at night? Do you wear a seat belt? If you practice any of these you are being hypocrites. why not trust God to keep you safe?
i always hear christians pray on earth as it is in heaven when it comes to health. they only want to bring part of the kingdom down. Never mind that there is no weapons or war in our Fathers house. So when folks pray on earth as it is in heaven i just hope they would practice heaven now and not look like the rest of the world.
I think its funny. We all are different people with different views and come from different back rounds. But we all are the same in the eyes of god. The one thing you all need to remember is if YOU believe it is right then do it. If you don’t leave it alone. Everyone reads the bible and gets different things from it. The fact that people are passionate is great just don’t over do it and scare off possible people who need the enlightenment of Gods word. You all are right, but don’t try and force you opinion onto someone else. Use the time you have to spread the word of God to those who need it. God be with you and I’ll be cleaning my “sword” tonight.
Marine ,Prison Guard ,Armed Private Security Officer with a the Paper work to be an Ordained Minister have not chosen to activate that with my denomination.
We must all face GOD to be judged for our sins both of commission and omission the one I don’t intend to be judged with is having the innocent blood on my hands for not protecting my brother or defending my self and family.
There are consequences for every action, the Word of God is true and the Law has been written, do not be caught up in OT VS, NT the Law is the Law no man can live up to it in it’s entirety that is why there is grace but obedience to the Law is not negated because of it
Yes, we are in the New Testament day, but the Word, is the Word, The Bible is the going to be Preached in all 100%. There are scripture from both Old and New that are used to reach the lost. We are living in a Day where arguing over owning a gun really dosn’t matter. 2 Timothy 2:23 But avoind foolish and ignorant disputs, knowing that they generate strife. We are to live a life like Christ. We are to be working towards a Perfect/Pure life. Phil 1:10 For I want you to understand what really matters, so that you may live pure and blameless lives until the day of Christ’s return.
I have found over 20 verses in the Bible that speaks of living a Complete…meaning abundantly supplied, verses also speaking of Pure, Blameless, Perfect, spotless lives. We need to work towards living this type of life, instead of arguing over whether or not guns are right in Gods eyes. He probably doesnt even care.
Paul discusses meat sacrificed to idols in Corinthians. His final word on it is that it if the people with weak consciences feel that something is a sin, then for the sake of that individual, one must refrain, even though you know that it is no sin.
I like how, in your hypothetical example, the “liberal gun-grabber” is a complete moron. I agree that gun laws don’t stop criminals from murdering but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be gun laws. Your arguments don’t make any sense. It’s illegal to murder (also a sin) but people still murder. Are you saying that we should legalize murder because people are doing it anyways? In your perfect world, everyone at Virginia Tech would have been armed and there would have been an epic shoot out? You don’t make any sense.
James, murder is illegal because it is wrong to kill innocent people. Owning a gun is not a bad thing, so there is no comparison. Moreover, murder is illegal so that we can issue judgment upon those who murder, not because the laws prevent people from murdering. What judgment do you think should be upon someone who owns a weapon? The point about gun laws is that they do not accomplish their supposed purpose, unless of course your purpose is to disarm innocent people.
I’m currently seeking God on this too, however I do own a gun and I will protect my family. However most of you are missing the point of why our founding fathers thought it necessary to own guns. It was not for hunting or protection from criminals (those would have been no brainers in those times) it was so that people would be secure against tyrannical governments and not be powerless in the face of state run armies seeking to destroy of freedoms, one of which is religious freedoms. One of the catalysts for the War of Independance was the British trying to take the guns from the colonists. They resisted. Is it wrong to resist a tyrannical and corrupt government? The founding fathers, most if not all of the Christians with strong faith did not think so. They tried peaceful and they were forced to fight. Just because we have the New Testament does not mean we ignore the Old. Paul said the law is not dead, it’s simply perfected in Jesus. If I am called to live in love and I allow my wife or friends to suffer, so that I can love the intruder, am I not then ignoring the love toward my wife? David was a warrior and killed many people, and God called him a man after his own heart. Obviously God was referring to his devotion to worship and seeking God, but he did not rebuke him for the killing he did for his nation, indeed the Mighty Men are celebrated in the bible for their exploits. Gun Himself used armies to punish the wicked. How do you know that God did not lead that evil man to you knowing the man would face justice at your hands? You have to act as God leads you, not think you are God and try and talk for Him. There are always many “human” ways to look at things. For now I’ll keep my guns and God can show me the right and wrong ways.
Oops, that should have said God Himself, not Gun Himself. Heheh. I know, proof reading is fundamental. Sorry.
A man who would sit by and watch his family get brutalized would likely have some serious marital problems afterwards.
Quoting the old testament to support guns, automatic weapons and so forth is not very honest.
Jesus said, that you should love your enemies and do good to them that despitefully use you. If you are forced to walk a mile with someone, walk with him two instead.
Those that take up the sword will die by the sword.
Where is the faith? How can there be any martyrs today when we kill them first.
You love your life and you will lose it.
IF you want a gun and banana clips and stuff, don’t use God to justify it.
Imagine if Jesus would have killed his tormenters and torturers, the ones that nailed Him to the cross and believe this, he was armed with something much more powerful than your handguns, or machine guns.
Where would we be? Salvation would not have been bought?
What about Job and all his family died, he lost everything he held dear, should he have cursed God like his wife said?
He kept his faith, even though; he in no wise could really understand, why?
Should the Christians taken to the coliseum have fought their oppressors, you tell me?
They were martyrs.
No one knows how long they will live, or how they will die and we all still keep our faith and live to be an example for Christ and represent our Lord, God.
When the town rejected the apostles Jesus sent out, they asked Him if they should sent fire and brimstone on them. And he said , OH NO, but it will be better for them than Sodom at Judgement in the meantime, knock the dust off of your sandals and go on.
Is it me,or for the most part are most of the posts looking at the discussion through a pin hole? is not the argument to defend or not to defend in an earthly manner? Regardless of guns ,arrows, knives or rocks? Are you using this as a way to further your agenda , or to seek the truth?
What about the scripture for us to obey the laws of the land?
Romans 13:1-2, TLB. Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow.
Doesnt this mean for me to obey the state government and the law that says I have a right to use deadley force if I feel my life or my families life is threatend? I surley would never want to shoot anybody. But It would be very hard to watch my 5 year old son, or my wife be beaten, taken or murdered when I had the means to stop it.
The bible also says to use judgement.
Resisting an attack is not to be confused with taking vengeance which is the exclusive domain of God (Romans 12:19). This has been delegated to the civil magistrate, who, as we read in Romans 13:4, “is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
I agree with one of the other posters, let the holy spirit guide you.
Charles John opposed quoting OT, and then himself quotes Jesus.
Dear sir, with all respect, you seem to have forgotten when the NT began (not before the death of the testator, according to Hebrews).
You can quote OT freely when God’s program has not changed concerning any particular matter. You just need to know if the program has been changed or not.
If NT does not give us anything about any change, then we have to go back to OT.
To apostle Paul was given instructions for us. Jesus prepared the 12 & the rest of the (believing) Israel for the coming tribulation. That is, Jesus and Paul had a context, in which they spoke / wrote. So according to Jesus you should not care about working either, because everything will be GIVEN, but you do care. Which is right, according to Paul.
Paul says that we should be in peace with everybody IF it is possible. And i myself believe this settles the issue.